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Offline Mirror

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2012, 08:49:37 am »
Yet, I've never heard anybody mention the fact that Uhura graduates from the Academy with the rank of Lieutenant and (even worse) McCoy graduates with the rank of Lieutenant Commander.
Does it happen in the Abrams movie or you are talking about TOS? I was under the impression that the events in the movie, although in the alternate timeline, happen years before the events in TOS...  Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Offline ZefNo

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2012, 09:09:54 am »
I've never heard anybody mention the fact that Uhura graduates from the Academy with the rank of Lieutenant and (even worse) McCoy graduates with the rank of Lieutenant Commander.

And Chekov (who was younger) had already graduated but was only an Ensign!

In the real timeline, Kirk was a lieutenant while still at the academy (like Saavik), so there is a certain weirdness already, and, to be fair, the real Trek has more than its share of inconsistencies regarding ranks (O'Brien being a prime example).

Presumably McCoy would have already completed medical training and earned a doctorate, so this might account for his greater rank.

But it certainly is weird that so many cadets end up as senior staff on the Federation's flagship straight after graduation!

Offline evil_genius_180

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2012, 12:02:23 pm »
Yes, Chekov is four years older.

As for McCoy, I'll grant that he may have gotten at least Lt. JG. for his doctorate, the same rank as Bashir when he came aboard DS9 fresh out of the Academy.  As for the Lt. Kirk at the academy thing, Gary Mitchell was already slipping into insanity when he said that.  He also got Kirk's middle initial wrong, so we can't really trust anything he said.  :P  Though, honestly, Trek has never been that good at getting military stuff right.

Yet, I've never heard anybody mention the fact that Uhura graduates from the Academy with the rank of Lieutenant and (even worse) McCoy graduates with the rank of Lieutenant Commander.
Does it happen in the Abrams movie or you are talking about TOS? I was under the impression that the events in the movie, although in the alternate timeline, happen years before the events in TOS...  Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, in the movie.  It's 7-8 years before WNMHGB and The Corbomite Maneuver.  In the movie, after going aboard the Enterprise straight from the Academy, Uhura is addressed as "Lieutenant" and McCoy is wearing Lieutenant Commander's stripes on his sleeves.  We don't know for certain that Sulu just graduated, so we don't know if he was supposed to have gotten an instant promotion also (we never saw him in the Academy scenes.)  Basically, everybody has their TOS ranks right after going aboard the Enterprise, even though it's years before TOS.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 12:10:12 pm by evil_genius_180 »

Offline Carwyn

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2012, 04:19:54 pm »
I believe in the Prime verse Kirk went back to the Academy as a LT to teach.  Here's the section of wiki blurb showing just how much of Kirks life they skipped over or completely cut out

 Kirk was granted a field commission as an ensign and posted to advanced training aboard the USS Republic. He then was promoted to lieutenant junior grade and returned to Starfleet Academy as a student instructor. Students could either "think or sink" in his class, and Kirk himself was "a stack of books with legs". Upon graduating in the top five percent, Kirk was promoted to lieutenant and served aboard the USS Farragut. While assigned to the Farragut, Kirk commanded his first planetary survey and survived a deadly attack that killed a large portion of the Farragut's crew, including his commanding officer, Captain Garrovick. He received his first command, the equivalent of a destroyer-type spaceship, while still quite young.

Funny how that little bit of blurb is far more interesting than the entire 2009 film

I just realised how meesed up the timline actually is because George dies aboard the Kelvin kirk doesn't join the Academy as a teenager and gets a placement on Tarsus 4. So that means Kodos the Executioner is still out there somewhere with his daughter putting on shows.

We need a new name fo r this franchise as I refuse to call it Star Trek.........Barn Tuck!! there abrams verse is now Barn Tuck
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 04:31:12 pm by Carwyn »

Offline G-man

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2012, 02:48:32 pm »
Actually, a while ago I had worked out a rough sketch of Kirk's timeline based off of what was revealed in the episodes themselves.

•   20 years ago he was on Tarsus IV when disaster struck, and witnessed Kodos the Executioner in action (Conscience of the King (S1)).  He would have been around 13 (In The Deadly Years (S2) he stated he was 34).
•   First met Gary Mitchell when Kirk was still a teenager (Where No Man Had Gone Before (2nd Pilot) he stated he knew Gary Mitchell for 15 years).  Arguably, the second pilot might have occured in the year before Season1.

ACADEMY DAYS:
•   Mallory’s father helped get him into the Academy (The Apple (S2)) when he was 17 (The Making of Star Trek)
•   Lt. Finney was one of Kirk’s Instructors at the academy (Court Martial (S1)), they would become close friends.
•   He had to deal with bullying from an upperclassman, Finnegan, during his academy days (Shore Leave (S1)).
•   Studied History under John Gill (Patterns of Force (S2))
•   Korby’s translation of medical records from the Orion Ruins were required reading. (What Are Little Girls Made Of (S1))
•   Garth of Izar’s campaign at Axanar was required reading at the Academy (Whom the Gods Destroy (S3)).
•   Cadet cruise, Kirk was part of a peace mission to Axanar for which he was awarded the Palm Leaf of Peace (Court Martial (S1); Whom the Gods Destroy (S3))
•   Cadet cruise on the USS Republic (NCC 1371) ‘Ensign’ Kirk reported Lt. Finney for leaving the circuit open to the atomic pile (Court-Martial (S1)).  Kirk earns a special commendation while Finney is put at the bottom of the Promotion Lists.*
•   Cheated on the Kobayashi Maru test (The Wrath of Khan) possibly as part of his Advanced Command Training*.  Something that Spock didn’t take, possibly because he never sought to command a starship.

ACTIVE DUTY:
•   First ship:  Lieutenant (jg) Kirk is assigned to the USS Farragut, CO is Captain Garrovick.*
•   13 years ago Kirk commanded his first planetary survey mission on Neural where he met Tyree (A Private Little War (S2))
•   He contracted Vegan choriomeningitis, but survived (Mark of Gideon (S3)).*
*A supposition that this would occur after his Academy years, as opposed to before or during.
 
•   11 years ago he was on the USS Farragut when they encountered the vampire cloud (Obsession (S2)).
•   Served a tour, when a Lieutenant, as an instructor at Star Fleet Academy.  Gary Mitchell was a midshipman in his class.  At that time, Kirk enjoyed “long-haired poetry”; was a “stack of books with legs”; and almost married a certain blonde (Carol Marcus? (The Wrath Of Khan)) whom Gary had sent in his direction (Where No Man Has Gone Before (S1)).*
*Probably, in light of the traumatic experience on board the USS Farragut, Kirk was detailed back to the Academy to help him recover (but this is a supposition on my part, but would seem to fit the existing evidence.).

•   Prior to gaining command of the Enterprise 4 years ago (S2), Kirk commanded a destroyer-equivalent vessel (The Making of Star Trek), and requested Gary Mitchell as helmsman (Where No Man Had Gone Before (S1)).
•   Assumed command of the USS Enterprise from Captain Pike when Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain (The Menagerie (S1)), Gary Mitchell was helmsman, Sulu was in charge of Astrophysics, Dr. Piper is in sickbay, Lee Kelso is Navigator, Scotty was Chief Engineer, and Spock was first & science officer, and Smith was the Yeoman (Where No Man Has Gone Before (S1)).
•   USS Enterprise was substantially refitted - to it's season 1 shape.

/s/

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Offline G-man

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2012, 03:12:23 pm »
In short, Kirk-Prime already had been on the fast track, to the extent that a number of his classmates were still Lieutenants and Lt. Commanders (Court Martial (S1)) while he was a captain of one of Star Fleet's finest starships, and had led an eventful life.  That said, it also showed that even though he was on the fast track he worked hard and suffered to get where he was.

This is totally contrary to his depiction in the film -- and, personally, I think makes him a far more intriguing character.

/s/

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Offline Saladin_CO

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2012, 10:40:27 pm »
Chekov may not even be the 'same' person, if you think about it.  He would have been conceived after the time change, and therefore could easily be a different genetic mix.  He could have the same name because he had the same parents, but he might be 100% a different individual, essentially a brother to our Chekov 'prime.'

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Offline evil_genius_180

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2012, 12:53:05 am »
He can't possibly be the same person.  It takes a specific mixture of DNA at a specific time to create a person.  And he's one of the few characters where we have on-screen evidence saying exactly how old he is, (22 years old in 2267) so we know he can't possibly be 17 years old in 2258.  By altering his age, they essentially made him a different person.  Though, I can think of no reason why the timeline changes would have affected him at all.  So, they essentially screwed up royally by even having him in the movie.  He should have been 13 years old in 2258, way too young to even join Starfleet.

Offline Mirror

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2012, 11:03:58 am »
By altering his age, they essentially made him a different person.  Though, I can think of no reason why the timeline changes would have affected him at all.
Oh, I can think of many reasons why the timeline changes can affect a person's life without being directly involved. That's the butterfly effect. This Pavel in this timeline is much younger than the original one, right? Let's imagine a possibility...

Let's say that Andrei Chekov (Pavel's father) was in the USS Kelvin in 2233 when Nero attacked it. He was one of the survivors. Because the ship was destroyed he had to serve to a different starship. In that ship, he met his future wife (same one as in the prime timeline or a different one), marrying sooner of what they would have done in the prime timeline (let's say 2239), which made them have a child sooner than in the prime timeline (2241). They call him Pavel. Although this is not the same Pavel we all know in prime timeline, in this new timeline this boy has the same name as he would have had if he was born later, just because it's a name his father had in mind for his first child.

This is just one possibility, and I can think of many more. But all this possibilities make this Pavel be genetically a different guy. There's no reason to think that this Pavel in the new timeline wouldn't have a brother much later, who could genetically be the same Pavel we all know, but of course, he would have a different name and a different life.

Edit: I hope this does not count as a story idea, my intention is to give a factible explanation.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 11:06:00 am by Mirror »

Offline evil_genius_180

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2012, 01:39:58 pm »
Edit: I hope this does not count as a story idea, my intention is to give a factible explanation.

I think I spotted JJ Abrams in the back jotting down notes.  :hyst:

"Hm, this is good stuff.  I'll have to use it."

:hyst:


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Offline ZefNo

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2012, 07:11:14 pm »
I think I spotted JJ Abrams in the back jotting down notes.  :hyst:
"Hm, this is good stuff.  I'll have to use it." :hyst:

If only he did listen to people who knew what Trek really was, then we wouldn't have ended up with that butchered travesty of 2009!

Offline Lost Shuttle 2

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Re: Finally watched Trek XI
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2012, 01:28:03 am »
Guess I'm not to late to the party.

I saw this movie at the theater and can not say I enjoyed it, ok maybe some of my reasons are not yours,in no real order.

1 The names of the drinks having names of places  they just about found during Next Gen time .
2. Where in heck did they keep that car and get fuel for it Oh wait  the replacator opps my bad.
 3.Thanks to time line Spock is having a fling with Uharua?!? The Vulcans changed that much
 4. How dose Older Spock share the same time and space as young Spock always thought that was a impossiblity. also Older Spock telling Young Kirk things that had not happened yet thought that was a no no.
 5 Have to agree with the not getting as many off the planet before the sun blew up if wrong everyone got a small trip if not they saved alot of people.
 6 I have enjoyed Mr. Greenwood since his No Where Man show and then some but his Capt. just seamed to be there not really in charge just being the way for Kirk to take charge Sorry Bruce.
 7 I was under  the impression this movie was to deal with the Academy, it did not we  know no more how the Academy works now than we did back in TOS time.
 8 The blowing up of Vulcan, who by the way did try to get as many off as they could, but why blow the whole planet all the guy had to do was kill Spocks parents fornt of him it would have gained the same feeling he wanted to see Spock in  pain.

  Ok theres others have to think of them.I just want someone explain why older shows have to be rebooted. So younger viewers will watch that is a foolish reason, for years many younger people  have watched TOS/ Next Generation what ever and enjoyed them,  if they could watch the oringial and liked them, then the idea of rebooting to get new fans is Hockey Pucks.

I have always said IF you want to do a show then do a show go on your own writting and make a univers of your own don't take a show that has a following and change it to be what you think it should have been. ( thank you Jamse for keeping Trek as it was)

The bit that there were no new stories again Hockey Puck. if there were no new stories then why are Fan Stories sites full of new stories for all shows. I have done a few for ones I like. this is an easy way of just redoing a show the way YOU want it. If some writers in Hollywood do not have any imagination let me know I know some good writers and we do have ours yet. Also if no new stories then what is James using for his on line shows??

A lot of older shows have new fans, one being Big Valley. same show I watched at 10 y/o and thanks to Me tv and Inspr. it has young fans. my youngest  nephew  ( who is in his 30's) was surprised to find Clint Eastwood played on a western (Rawhide) he rather enjoys the show.  Now to get him to watch Wanted Dead or Alive...

I will enjoy my TOS oringinal shows cos like B&B doing Enterprise and saying that the time line was messed up when the Borg got to Montana then why were the shows still  on tv not changed they stayed the same.. Time Line ploys are  like cheat sheets to easy to fall back on.




 

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