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Author Topic: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?  (Read 507 times)

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Offline Saladin_CO

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Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« on: July 13, 2013, 02:59:38 pm »
Open for debate....

I propose that both instances of Delta Vega, from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and Star Trek: 2009, are one and the same.

Something that people complain about in the new films, and I understand the complaint, is the whole Delta Vega thing. Because they see on screen that Spock is looking up into the sky and seeing Vulcan collapse into a black hole, they are assuming that he's actually seeing it with his eyes. That would mean Delta Vega was a moon of Vulcan. Now, that can't be true because we know Vulcan has no moon. There is a dual planet, T'Ruhk, that shares a common center of gravity with Vulcan, according to what was seen in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Delta Vega is not that place. It was volcanic world as seen from the surface of Vulcan.

Delta Vega could even be in a totally different system, and could be the same one in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" if you stretch your perceptions a little. Here's why....

In TOS "The Immunity Syndrome" it was established that Spock sensed the deaths of the crew of the USS Intrepid, all vulcans, from light years away.

What I surmise is that Spock was actually on the same world from WNMHGB, and he was seeing the death of Vulcan through his mind's eye, not his real eyes. He felt their deaths because he knew Nero was going to destroy Vulcan, and when it happened, he felt their deaths.

All it requires is this. Delta Vega is between Vulcan and Earth, and is still remote enough that at lightspeed, the Enterprise couldn't make the journey for years, but at warp speed, days. Kirk says in his log from the episode, "Star systems that are days away at warp, are now years in the distance."

Put Delta Vega right between Vulcan and Earth and when the Narada destroyed Vulcan and headed for Earth, it's on the way. Even if the Enterprise was headed for the Laurentian system, it can be on the way as well.

It's a slight stretch, but it can be rationalized to be the same place with a little creativity and not violate canon, either.

It seemed to me that the writers intended Delta Vega to be the same one as seen in the second pilot. So, if that's the case, we just have to see how it can be. And it can be, with a little work on our part to decipher it.

Memory Alpha is not always correct. The writers make assumptions too.

In my opinion, en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Delta_Vega_Station is the same place as en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Delta_Vega_outpost, and if you put it on a star map, it's between Earth and 40 Eridani A (the vulcan system) but a little closer to the edge of the galaxy. If it were so remote that Scotty was stationed there and no one ever came to relieve him, it almost fits the idea of a remote station that is fully automated. If it were in the Vulcan system, Scott wouldn't be that remote, would he? I mean, if it's the same place, all you have to do is put it halfway between and let Spock have a mind link to the destruction of vulcan and not take what was seen as literal. It was in a mind meld with Kirk, after all, not directly visible to Spock. He was using a mind meld to tell Kirk what happened, and he could even be seeing what Kirk saw, rather than what he saw with his eyes. No stretch here. Just have to interpret it correctly.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2013, 03:06:03 pm by Saladin_CO »

Ray Martin is the Captain of the U.S.S. Saladin, in the latter half of the 23rd Century. Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/SaladinFacebook Episodes: http://tinyurl.com/SaladinEpisodes "Alternate starship designs are from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph (c) 1975

Offline ZefNo

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 06:18:25 pm »
They messed up. Just accept it  :duh:

It wouldn't be the first time, and certainly not the last time the people behind the reboot shoved two fingers up at the existing canon.

Next you'll be trying to rationalise how Khan in STID can be the same character as Khan in Space Seed - it just doesn't work. They used a familiar name in an attempt to gain kudos from the casual fans, but the mechanics just don't pan out. The result is just cheap and entirely derivative at best, outright offensive at worst.

The sooner they start being original and not continually trying to recreate stories that we saw (better) on TOS, the better of they will be.

Offline S'kai

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 10:02:12 am »
They messed up. Just accept it  :duh:

It's only a TV show.

Astronomers who love Star Trek seem to understand this  have much less problem moving on than other fans.
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Offline Saladin_CO

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 08:31:29 pm »
They messed up. Just accept it  :duh:

It wouldn't be the first time, and certainly not the last time the people behind the reboot shoved two fingers up at the existing canon.

Next you'll be trying to rationalise how Khan in STID can be the same character as Khan in Space Seed - it just doesn't work. They used a familiar name in an attempt to gain kudos from the casual fans, but the mechanics just don't pan out. The result is just cheap and entirely derivative at best, outright offensive at worst.

The sooner they start being original and not continually trying to recreate stories that we saw (better) on TOS, the better of they will be.

Yeah, that's true.  Of course he said his name was Khan, but not Khan Noonien Singh.  I realize it's a stretch beyond words to even suggest this, but he could be using the title of 'Khan' rather than the name Khan.  LOL.  (And I hope you know that I'm joking.)

Seriously though, Delta Vega could work. 

Ken :)

Ray Martin is the Captain of the U.S.S. Saladin, in the latter half of the 23rd Century. Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/SaladinFacebook Episodes: http://tinyurl.com/SaladinEpisodes "Alternate starship designs are from the Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph (c) 1975

Offline Cacher123

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 04:06:30 pm »
Yeah, that's true.  Of course he said his name was Khan, but not Khan Noonien Singh.  I realize it's a stretch beyond words to even suggest this, but he could be using the title of 'Khan' rather than the name Khan.  LOL.  (And I hope you know that I'm joking.)

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Offline Tony F

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2013, 07:55:41 pm »
Feel that singing on the side of your face??
Thats JJ Bad Robot and Paramount Slapping you
and saying   I DONT CARE what you think
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Offline Mirror

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 03:57:00 pm »
Feel that singing on the side of your face??
Thats JJ Bad Robot and Paramount Slapping you
and saying   I DONT CARE what you think
Typical...

Offline HalOfBorg

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2014, 10:02:31 am »
The Delta Vega in the movie and the one in the episode can not be the same one. In the original episode (Where No Man Has Gone Before) the Enterprise is out at the galactic edge, where they encounter the barrier.

The encounter left the ship without warp drive, but they managed to reach Delta Vega in a reasonable amount of time so DV has to be very close to the galactic edge. If Vulcan and Earth were that close to it, then exploring it would have been done many times. The barrier would be well known.

And it irritates me when people say "it was an ice world" in this case or any of the other ones - like on Stargate when Carter and Jack gate through to Earth and come out the other gate. Carter describes it as an ice planet (or similar words). All we know about DV from the movie is it was cold where Kirk/Spock were. Didn't anyone ever hear of winter? Maybe it looked icy from space as well, but we only got to see part of it.

Someone somewhere in the Federation Planet Designation Office is different. Maybe daddy died on the Kelvin. Or lived this time.

In any case I don't see things surviving well on Vulcan's twin planet when the black hole sucked things up. Would have been a very bad day.

Had to be some other planet/moon, maybe in Vulcan's system.
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Offline evil_genius_180

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Re: Where... and what... is Delta Vega... really?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2014, 12:47:04 pm »
Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman were being cheeky when they put Delta Vega near Vulcan.  (they admitted all of this in an interview)  They were well aware of the episode Where No Man Has Gone before and that Delta Vega from that episode was nowhere near the Vulcan system.  They thought, if they added a "minor" planet that fans were aware of to the script, we'd like it.  Seriously, that's it.  They pretended like they were paying homage to that episode, even though they really weren't, and they thought that we'd like it.  That's the one and only reason Delta Vega appears in Star Trek (2009.)  So, there's not any attempt to "move" the planet in a canon sense of the word, they were just being idiots.  So, it can basically be ignored.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:48:53 pm by evil_genius_180 »




 

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